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Open source is brutal: an interview with Google's Chris DiBona
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Image by opensource.com
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Chris DiBona is the Director of Open Source for Google. He is also one of the great champions of open source, dating back to when he first fell in love with Linux at his university.
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At the All Things Open conference this year, Chris will give an update on Google's current open source software activities and a retrospective, of sorts, on the origins and state of Android.
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I caught up with him to discuss his favourite Linux distribution, the brutal nature of open source, and his view of Google's responsibilities as an industry leader.
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Read more in this interview.
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What's something we don't know about your path to Google and working with open source?
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> I first used Linux while I was at school, as we needed to write some client/server stuff for the operating systems class I was taking. Fortuitously for me, the Sun workstation lab was crowded, very hot due to poor ventilation, smelly (coder odor), and the terminals were very very slow. I figured, what the heck, let's give this Linux thing a shot on a 486-16 I had lying around at home. Best decision ever. I fell in love with the Linux OS. It was so great, fast, and feature-full even back then compared to other unixes. I got an A in the OS class, too.
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A question almost as dangerous as asking about your favourite sports team; what's your favourite Linux distribution?
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> Ha! A flip answer would be Android as that's the device with a Linux kernel that I use more than anything else by two orders of magnitude, though most people don't consider it a distribution in the common way we talk about them. I'm typing the reply to this question on Chrome running on a Ubuntu/Debian derivative. I'm running a Debian instance on Google compute engine and I have a Fedora machine at home that I use from time to time. I carry a Chomebook around for most of my presentations and feel it's probably the most secure machine I own.
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> Favorite though? Android.
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You spent a long time working with open source and Linux before moving to Google in 2004. What made you want to work with Google?
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> When I decided to return to full time work after a brief period consulting, Google's offer was the strongest and the most interesting to me. The idea of being able to be Google's 'open source person' and to build the effort from scratch was deeply appealing to me. I also felt that Google was (and is) still doing really interesting computer science and that appealed to me in ways that the other offers didn't.
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Not only do you mentor and consult on a variety of different projects, you're also involved with Google Ventures, helping to fund startups, so what is it that you look for in a project? What makes you say: "Yes, I want to help you"?
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> Well, honestly, I am mostly looking for it to be interesting. For Google Ventures, I am not really in the deal flow so much as I'm brought in on open source issues (which are interesting and legion).
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In an interview a few years ago you said, "Google works with the open source community. Sponsorship implies stewardship, and that's a pretty serious thing." Does Google hope to avoid stewardship in the communities it's involved in? Are the two inextricably linked?
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> I think so. I would rather Google engineers and non-google open source engineers see each other as peers in computer science. We do realize that our broad funding of open source projects can imply stewardship like control of projects, but you know, that's how it goes even if that sort of thing doesn't really correlate.
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You once called open source “brutal”. What did you mean by that?
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> Well, I think I was asked why open source works and when you think about how software engineering management works in industry, it shouldn't. Disparate, distributed, non-homogenous teams are extremely difficult to run in a company, but in open source it creates some world-class terrific software. Why is that?
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> I think that it is because open source projects are able to only work with the productive people and ignore everyone else. That behavior can come across as very harsh or exclusionary, and that's because it is that: brutally harsh and exclusionary of anyone who isn't contributing.
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> This is why project forking is so important. If a person is rejected from a project for whatever reason, they can fork and take the project in a new direction, and if their ideas and execution is superior to the primary project, that fork becomes the new reality and those people that rejected that developer are now the rejected.
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> So, I guess what I'm saying is that survival of the fittest as practiced in the open source world is a pretty brutal mechanism, but it works very very well for producing quality software. Boy is it hard on newcomers though...
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Fourteen years ago, you edited an O'Reilly book about open source. Has the landscape of open source changed much in those years? Do you think open source will overtake the proprietary model in the future?
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> The landscape has changed a bit, with the notable demographic difference being that we've seen a growth in the number of people in companies working on open source, and I perceive a slight decline in open source participation in the academy, which I blame on the tech-transfer/bayh-dole patenting process being a real barrier to code licensing. Similarly, some open source coming out of universities and companies simply isn't open source enough as there is a fair amount of side dealing going around on around patents. I'm tempted to say that if it isn't a patent granting license, you should be suspicious, but that's probably a bit extreme a position to take at this time.
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---
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via: https://opensource.com/business/13/10/interview-chris-dibona
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本文由 [LCTT](https://github.com/LCTT/TranslateProject) 原创翻译，[Linux中国](http://linux.cn/) 荣誉推出
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译者：[译者ID](https://github.com/译者ID) 校对：[校对者ID](https://github.com/校对者ID)
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开源是冷酷无情的：谷歌Chris DiBona访谈
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==============================================================
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Chris DiBona是谷歌开源执行总监。他也是开源界杰出的领军人物，对开源的关注可以追溯到他的大学时期，对Linux可谓一见钟情。
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在今年的 ”一切皆开源“ 大会上，Chris 将会介绍谷歌开源软件事业的各个方面，包括其进展、前景等，还有Android的起源和现况。
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我去见他，和他一起讨论他最喜欢的linux发行版，开源的无情法则，以及他对谷歌作为业界领袖应有的责任的看法。
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以下是访谈详情。
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问：对于你加入谷歌并且在开源部门展开工作，有那些方面是我们所不知道的？
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答：
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第一次使用linux是在上学的时候，由于当时选修了操作系统课程，为此，我打算写一些 有关客户端/服务器 的东西。很幸运，
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那时候Sun工作站实验室很热闹，因为公开探讨问题的风气使然，编码味十足，但是使用的终端跑得相当慢。我在想，瓶颈在哪，
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不妨就用一直都摆放在家里的一台486-16上试试这个linux到底怎么样。相当棒的决定。从此我喜欢上了linux系统。linux太棒了，
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跑得很快，而且与其他unix系统相比，功能齐全。OS这门课，我也得了A。
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问：下面这个问题跟询问你最喜欢的球队一样很危险；你最喜欢哪个linux发行版？
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答：
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哈！我很想说是Android，因为Android是基于linux内核的，而我对linux内核的使用频度远远超过其他一些东西。尽管通常情况
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下讨论Android时，多数人都不把它当做一个发行版。我的回答同样适用于在Ubuntu/Debian衍生版本上运行的Chrome浏览器，如果有
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人针对Chrome这样问的话。我在谷歌计算引擎上运行的是Debian，在家里则经常用Fedora。出席公共场合的时候，大多数情况下我携
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带Chomebook, 感觉用它最安全。
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最喜欢的？ Android。
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问：2004年加入谷歌之前，你在开源和linux领域投入了许多时间，是什么原因促使你加入谷歌?
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从事咨询方面的工作一段简短的时间之后，当我决定开始全职工作，谷歌的offer对我来说最富有吸引力。 成为谷歌开源人、白
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手起家开始创业的想法深深地打动了我。我自己也认为谷歌过去，包括现在仍然在做计算机科学方面 有意思的东西，而且以各
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种方式吸引着我，这些不是其他offer所具有的。
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问：你不但指导各种项目的开发，而且也参与了Google Ventures，为该项目的启动注资，那么你在一个项目中想要寻找什么，是什
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么让你说出这样的话：”是的，我就是想帮你” ?
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呃，坦白说，我希望它是令人感兴趣的。对于Google Ventures，我并不需要过多的深入其中， 开源问题就不同了，有趣而且参
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与者众多。
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问：多年前的一次采访中你曾经说过：”谷歌与开源社区同行。赞助意味着责任，这是相当严肃的一件事情。“谷歌是否打算避免在自
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己参与的社区中担责，二者之间存在必然联系吗？
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我想是这样的。我希望谷歌工程师和非谷歌开源界的工程师都能把对方看做计算机科学领域的同侪。 我们得意识到，对开源项
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目的广泛资助预示着责任，比如项目控制，大家都知道，事情就应该这么做，即使真的没什么联系。
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问：你曾经称开源”无情“,具体是什么意思?
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呃，我还以为你会问为什么开源可以行得通，什么时候会考虑开源软件工程管理在业内是如何运作，但是你没有。不同特性的团
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队在公司里的运作时及其不同的，但是在开源领域，可以创作出世界级的非常优秀的软件。为什么会这样？
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因为我认为，在开源项目中，你可以选择只和富有成效的人一起工作而忽视其他人。这种行为被理解为非常尖刻和排斥性的。
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然而实情原本就如此：无情并别排斥那些无所贡献的人。
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然而这就是为什么项目克隆如此重要。无论出于什么原因，如果一个人被排斥在一个项目之外，那么他们可以克隆该项目然后使
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该项目朝着不同的方向发展。假如他们的想法及实现优于先前被拒绝加入的项目，那么，好吧，这次克隆成为新的现实，而那些拒绝
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别的开发者加入的家伙现在则尝到了被拒绝的滋味。
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因此，我要说的是，开源世界里，实践出来的最合适的东西才会赢得生存的命运，这是相当无情的机制。但是这样行得通，可以
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开发出高质量的软件。诚然，对新手来说比较难上手……
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问：14年前，你编辑过一本O'Reilly出版的有关开源的书。这些年开源领域是否了发生大的变化？你认为将来开源模式会取代专有模
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式吗？
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开源界确实发生了一些变化，非常显著的一点就是公司里从事开源工作的人数的增长。而且我还觉察到学术界参与开源的人数有
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所下降，我把它归咎于技术转让专利申请，对代码许可权确实是个障碍。类似的，一些来自大学和公司的开源代码不足以称之为开源
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，因为围绕着专利要应付相当多的问题。我很想说要不是有专利授权许可，我们应该都持怀疑态度，但是在这个时候说这样的话就有
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可能走向极端了。
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---
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via: https://opensource.com/business/13/10/interview-chris-dibona
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本文由 [LCTT](https://github.com/LCTT/TranslateProject) 原创翻译，[Linux中国](http://linux.cn/) 荣誉推出
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译者：[l3b2w1](https://github.com/l3b2w1) 校对：[校对者ID](https://github.com/校对者ID)
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